Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  8

  Who first applied Daniel 9 to the Christian's Jesus?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.. .

  "somewhere", i came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of daniel 9 as identifying the year of jesus' appearance as the "messiah".. .

  try as i might, i cannot relocate that information, so i am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.. .

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  Doug Mason

  Leolaia,

  I cannot thank you enough for your wonderful knowledge and above that, your generosity in freely sharing it with us all.

  Doug
• 
  8

  Who first applied Daniel 9 to the Christian's Jesus?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.. .

  "somewhere", i came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of daniel 9 as identifying the year of jesus' appearance as the "messiah".. .

  try as i might, i cannot relocate that information, so i am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.. .

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  Doug Mason

  Wobble,

  I searched Google.Books.Com for these expressions:

  70 weeks prophecy in early Jewish interpretation

  70 weeks prophecy in early Christian interpretation

  Clement 70 weeks

  Tertullian 70 weeks.

  I decided to look at books, as I was interested in locating scholarly works, not wild exegetical fancies, which are so easily found by searching the www. Going by the plethora of hits, the prophecy of the "70 weeks/sevens" must be the most abused prophecy in the Bible, with minds far greater than ours providing their wildly different explanations.

  I was not interested in assessing the validity of their interpretations, rather I was simply interested in finding documented evidences of what the Jews and Christians wrote at the time leading up to the early Church Fathers.

  If you get a chance to plough through the pages that are available, I would be interested in your thoughts.

  Doug
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  8

  Who first applied Daniel 9 to the Christian's Jesus?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.. .

  "somewhere", i came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of daniel 9 as identifying the year of jesus' appearance as the "messiah".. .

  try as i might, i cannot relocate that information, so i am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.. .

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  2. 
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  Doug Mason

  Wobble,

  I have spent several weeks preparing a critique of the 9th chapter of the WTS book, "The Bible- God's Word or Man's?", which focuses on the seventy "sevens" at Daniel 9. Maybe there is some way we could chat? Send me a pm if you are interested with contact by email.

  The thought behind my question is that if the 70 "sevens" at Daniel 9 is such convincing proof of the Christian's Jesus, can I find that interpretation in the Scriptures? If not, where did the idea start? Is it in the writings of the Essenes, Gnostics, Ebionites or the early Church Fathers? Or is it an invention from as late as the 19th century?

  Another question: How does the WTS work out that Jesus' ministry lasted 3 1/2 years?

  Doug
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  29

  How does GOVERNING BODY receive "NEW LIGHT"?

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just how does the governing body of jehovah's witnesses receive their "insight" or "understanding" of the bible, in order to publish this "spiritual food at the proper time" in their watchtower and awake magazines and all their books?.

  let's find out -- from their own publications -- exactly how this happens:.

  "spirits of the dead" brochure (1991), page 18:.

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  Doug Mason

  I wonder what would happen when people decide that the book of Acts was written as historical revisionism some 40 years after Paul died, and that the "Council at Jerusalem" was a creation of the writer's imagination, and that it never happened!

  "Bang!" would go their "Governing Body" parody, and "Poof!" would go their "no blood" drama.

  And this is not beyond the probable situation.

  Doug
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  10

  Paul in Scripture, was he a real hsitorical person and a converted Jew

  by designs in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  critique on a scholarly level began around the 1700s by f.c.

  baur a theologian in germany followed by deissman and reitzenstein.

  some felt he was really a gnostic, others felt that he may have been the writer luke, or a plato schooled mystic.

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  Doug Mason

  To see the influence of Paul and how different his teachings are those to the people who wrote the "synoptic" gospels, imagine what the "New Testament" will be like without any of his writings (and those after his style). "Christianity" would be very Jewish.

  Then ask why the 4th century state-church preferred the writings from his group over those writings from other factions of the Judaeo/Christian movements.

  Doug
• 
  10

  Paul in Scripture, was he a real hsitorical person and a converted Jew

  by designs in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  critique on a scholarly level began around the 1700s by f.c.

  baur a theologian in germany followed by deissman and reitzenstein.

  some felt he was really a gnostic, others felt that he may have been the writer luke, or a plato schooled mystic.

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  Doug Mason

  Several interesting studies have been released in recent times.

  The classic would probably be: "St Paul versus St Peter: A Tale of Two Missions", by Michael Goulder.

  Others include:

  "How Jesus Became Christian: The Early Christians and the Transformation of a Jewish Teacher into the Son of God" by Barrie Wilson, and

  "Who Wrote the New Testament?: The Making of the Christian Myth", Burton Mack.

  Doug
• 
  8

  Who first applied Daniel 9 to the Christian's Jesus?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.. .

  "somewhere", i came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of daniel 9 as identifying the year of jesus' appearance as the "messiah".. .

  try as i might, i cannot relocate that information, so i am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  I am seeking information, not an exegesis or an eisegesis.
  
  "Somewhere", I came across a statement identifying the person/group that first interpreted the 70 "sevens" of Daniel 9 as identifying the year of Jesus' appearance as the "Messiah".
  
  Try as I might, I cannot relocate that information, so I am hoping someone can point me to authoritative sources that identify the person/group who first provided that interpretation, and hopefully the contemporary context.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Doug
• 
  18

  Research studies on the mental health of Jehovah’s Witnesses

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  research studies on the mental health of jehovahs witnesses.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/scandinavian_medicine_march_8_1946.pdf.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/paradise_postponed_jerry_bergman.pdf.

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  Doug Mason

  EmptyInside,

  Thank you for your thoughts and observations. May I use them?

  Most appreciated.

  Doug
• 
  18

  Research studies on the mental health of Jehovah’s Witnesses

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  research studies on the mental health of jehovahs witnesses.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/scandinavian_medicine_march_8_1946.pdf.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/paradise_postponed_jerry_bergman.pdf.

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  Doug Mason

  Mattieu,

  Thank you!

  Doug
• 
  18

  Research studies on the mental health of Jehovah’s Witnesses

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  research studies on the mental health of jehovahs witnesses.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/scandinavian_medicine_march_8_1946.pdf.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/paradise_postponed_jerry_bergman.pdf.

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  Doug Mason

  just n,

  I appreciate your thoughts.

  The JWs are by no means unique. As you say, people's insecurities are manifested in many ways. Most of the time, people go around thinking "I wonder what they are thinking about me" - a circular thought process.

  This forum happens to be dedicated to JWs, and these articles are on JWs, so the linkage is quite apparent. I feel certain that the outputs of these studies - and I deliberately posted several simultaneously - could be applied to other organisations where insecurity is not resolved but enhanced, they would conclude with the same devastating mental impact as is seen with JWs.

  It is a real pity that more recent studies, using better rigour and updated understandings, do not appear to have been conducted, so that people with these illnesses can be better helped, and the stigma associated with mental illness may be set aside. Nevertheless, these do provide a historical context, which some will be able to identify in their own lives today.

  I hope that there is one JW who is helped by reading these studies. I hope that this one JW is empowered by these studies to take positive action that helps them to better manage the internal trauma they are experiencing. I hope that other JWs will support these ill people, while at the same time question the unrelenting mental pressures put to bear on the followers of this exclusive brethren style operation.

  Doug